Same Sex marriage
Gay People's Chronicle Discussion Forum: Same Sex marriage
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     By Admin on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 07:39 pm: Edit |
What are the feelings on same-sex marriage?
Do most gays and lesbians really want to be able to marry?
Or do we just want the legal benefits? i.e. hospital visitation, insurance, adoption etc.
| By Mikey on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 07:49 pm: Edit |
Ive been with my boyfriend for 8 years and we wouldnt get married if we could. Why do we want so badly to be like straight people and get married?
What we want, we have mostly taken care of: we have specific wills and powers of attorney that will enable either of us to make decisions for the other. Joint checking accounts, credit cards etc. Our employers offer us benefits as well - lucky, I know, but we have it.
The thing that the gay movement should be pushing is not for marriage, but just for the ability to register as domestic partners. This would give most of the benefits we seek, yet not weigh the issue down with the whole religious nature of marriage.
Thats my 2 cents....
| By Bendog on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 05:19 pm: Edit |
I couldnt agree more. If one is in a committed relationship, you should be able to access the benefits. But, why try so hard to fit into the structure of heterosexual marraige? It is a stucture that doesnt work very well for heteros, and it may not work any better for us. Are there other issues that deserve priority over this issue?
| By Eric on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 09:46 am: Edit |
I couldnt disagree more. Married couples have 1070 rights and privledges that non-married couples dont have, even with joint checking accounts and domestic partner benefits.
Some of them include things like not being called as a witness against your spouse, inheritance rights, and the right to have your final wishes be carried out by your spouse - the closest person in your life - without threat of interference from family.
Most of us do not have employers that grant domestic partner benefits.
People who think that covering the financial aspects of living together with some kind of convenient arrangement see marriage as little more than a financial and economic enterprise. Clearly it is more than that and we will not achieve total equality without the right to marry.
I think that legal marriage and religious marriage should be made into two totally separate things. I think that people should be able to enter into a legal relationship with all the benefits now given to married couples--regardless of the nature of that relationship. I think the government should get out of the business of legitimizing a particular religious institution.
Legally, the governments interest in marriage is about encouraging financial stability and establishing legal responsibility. Sex doesnt really enter into it except as far as establishing who is responsible for caring for the children. We have the opposite problem from straight couples: While straights struggle with the deadbeat parent problem, many of us are dying to take on that responsibility.
As far as the government is concerned, who cares whether your partnership is a sexual relationship or if its your cousin or a close, trusted friend and roommate? For that matter, as far as a legal relationship is concerned, why should it be limited to only two people? Why not form legal family units that officially recognize relationships between adults who depend on each other and the children who rely on them?
When it comes to religious marriage, I think gay couples should be included there too. Legally, I think that churches should have the right to decide what kind of ceremonies they will allow and who may participate. However, I think that any religious organization that denies full participation to anyone--especially based on who they love--is a pretty lousy religious organization. I hope I live to see the day when churches welcome us with open arms and regret the days they persecuted us.
| By Admin on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 05:13 pm: Edit |
Heard John Farina from the Center on Grid Radio today talking about how important it is that we get out and support this next hearing coming up at Lakewood City Hall on January 10th.
Our community needs to show that this legislation is needed and wanted by the people of Lakewood.
For details on how to help out, call the Center at 216-522-1999.
| By Mikey on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 11:07 am: Edit |
Speaking of the Lakewood council hearings, how did it go last night? Anyone there who can tell us how it went?
I was at the Lakewood council hearings last night. Craven is the word I would use for some of the council no votes, especially Corcoran, George and FitzGerald. They dont want to be associated with the religious right fanatics, but their spineless no votes placed them there anyway. They should all read the chapter about U.S. Rep. Edmund Ross in John F. Kennedys Profiles in Courage. He risked his political career to vote justly in the impeachment of Andrew Johnson. Its a shame these waffling weaklings couldnt have the same guts to face up to that threat of a lawsuit. By not standing up to the right-wing bullies threat to sue, they in effect let them run the city. What if the folks who wrote the Bill of Rights caved in because of a threatened lawsuit?
Just a comment about the Defense of Marriage Act theyre bringing back to the Ohio House & Senate... how likely is this to pass? How worried should we be? Ive got my people writing letters like crazy; I think we all should be flooding the mailboxes of our Senators and Representatives to let them know how we feel about this ridiculous and frightening piece of legislation.
A list of Reps can be found here, and Senators can be found here.
As for the vote in Lakewood... my prayers go out to all those who represented our community at those meetings. I cannot even imagine the courage it must have taken. I cried all night when I saw the ruling. What will it take for the religious right to start realizing how much pain they cause in the lives of others??
Leave nothing to chance on DOMA. Theres been a lot of things said against it in print ��The Sandusky Register deserves a lot of credit for coming out against it editorially. But unless those bozos sponsoring it hear directly from their constituents who are against it, theyll just plow on ahead. If your state senator or state rep is a co-sponsor, call him up and ask him directly to explain to you why hes doing it. Ask him what specific changes it makes to the present Ohio marriage law. Then get your friends, your parents, your great-Aunt Erma Sue and anyone else you can think of to make a call or write a letter. Most of these guys will sign their names as co-sponsors to anything, because they dont expect anyone to confront them directly and hold them accountable.
| By Hal on Saturday, February 12, 2000 - 10:29 am: Edit |
Comtessa said: What will it take for the religious right to start realizing how much pain they cause in the lives of others??
These people dont care how much pain they cause. They are the most selfish people around. They want to reshape the world--and everyone in it--to suit their religious beliefs. What they are actually practicing is religious intolerance disguised as homophobia. My religion says you are bad. Your religion, which says otherwise, is wrong. If more people could see that, society would give them less latitude.
And those are the nice rad-righters. Many of their leaders have another agenda: to use whatever issue they can stir up to gain political power and money. Today its us. Before, it was abortion, and before that, the Equal Rights Amendment.
So, Hal, what are you going to do to help counter this?
| By Mikel on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 10:52 am: Edit |
I see that no one has posted on this topic for some time, but I came across an article that sums up my feelings. It is located at this link.
Also, please show that you care whether gay people have equal rights, including the right to choose whether we want to be married, but going to this site and voting YES.
Thank you!
Thanks, Mikel, for directing us to that site. Id never seen it before... but in every single vote on the gay issues, the pro-discriminatory votes were way, way against us! I dont know who these people are that are so afraid of us, but theres a lot of them voting! Please, please, everyone, GO VOTE HERE, and make our voices heard!!!
Oh, and while youre at it... vote in the real elections, where it counts! We complain about the way things are all the time, but so few of us DO anything about it!
| By Admin on Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 06:59 pm: Edit |
Texas ruling will give two women a marriage license
I was really excited about this headline in the GPC this week... Texas, just imagine! But then I read it and realized this ruling only applies to this particular case, because of the chromosomes!!!
What kind of nonsense is this, that now our birth chromosomes decide our gender, not our appearance or our actual current physical sex or-- heaven forbid-- our personal individual identity! When will people understand that gender is fluid, sexuality is fluid, and that everyone falls in between somewhere... all this narrowness, this labelling, this stereotyping makes my blood boil!
It is exactly this type of mindset that manages to argue ME, and MY sexual orientation, right out of existence! I EXIST! And so do all of the pre-op and post-op and non-op transpeople and androgynous people and drag kings/queens and everyone else who refuses to stick with a category! We deserve the right to BE! We deserve the right to love freely! Why is this such a difficult concept for some people to grasp?
| By Admin on Saturday, September 16, 2000 - 03:30 pm: Edit |
Full marriage rights passed in Netherlands
| By Tommy on Saturday, May 05, 2001 - 04:39 pm: Edit |
Did you see the latest that the Ohio House is trying to do? Its in the May 4th Chronicle
They are going so far as to even deny straight people rights now. Maybe that will get the masses moving.
| By N4jon on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 01:41 am: Edit |
Its been almost two years since this question was first asked, but it is still a valid question. I hope that Mikey and Bendog come to an understanding that without legal recognition, some hospitals refuse partners to see each other in intensive care units. I can live without being able to have inheritance, pay lower taxes, or a lot of the other benefits that civil unions would have, but dont stand in my way for my basic human right to love my husband. We all need to get active to stop DOMA again.
I DONT THINK THAT IT IS SO MUCH THAT WE WANT TO BE LIKE HETEROSEXUALS BUT WE FEEL AS IF WE IN THE GAY COMMUNTIY ARE PEOPLE REGAURDLESS OF OUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND WOULD JUST LIKE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE I MEAN IF THE ROLLS WE REVERSED DONT U THINK THAT HETEROSEXUALS WOULD FIGHT FOR THAT RIGHT JUST TO NOT HAVE SOMEONE TELL THEM HOW THEY CAN OR CAN NOT LIVE WE ARE ALL PEOPLE AND NO ONE IS ABOVE THE REST SO WE SHOULD HAVE ALL RIGHTS JUST AS THE NEXT MAN OR WOMAN
Id like to discuss bi women falling in love with their straight girlfriends. Its happened to me repeatedly, and its very painful! Its usually the end of the relationship when one comes out to them, too.
| By Robert on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit |
ESSAY RE GAY MARRIAGE
| By Misio on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 06:54 pm: Edit |
dear Robert, ive read the information provided by your website and I respect your opinion. on the website it says that 911 was God punishing America for homosexuality, ect.., but i disagree with you. it was not caused by homosexuality, it was caused by religious extremists, people who memorize and judge others by what is written in the Bible, quran, and Torah etc.... what really angers me is that though Im an adult, people still are trying to tell me what is right and what is wrong. im an adult, I can make my own decisions. if being homosexual is wrong by Gods devine law then im worshipping the wrong God then I shall face the consequences and be punished, not you!!! and since you enjoy quoting the Holy Bible so much than heres something you might enjoy, this quote is very common,: He who is without sin, toss the first stone im paraphrasing, i dont know the exact location because i have more important things to do than memorize the Bible things like being a good christian, oh boy, im ranting. REMEMBER MY WORDS, ROBERT: your opinion is just that, it is not, nor will it ever be fact.
| By Misio on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:50 pm: Edit |
this is off-topic but it is very important to me im posting this in every forum.
can anyone tell me if there are any gay friendly churches or religious organizations in cleveland area i have no religious preference. im looking to find a new church because my pastor recently preached about the evils of homosexual lifestyle.
I have been lucky enough to find the love of my life. As a gay man, thats harder than it sounds. But i found him and i know that we are going to be together for ever if not longer. Legal or not- hes the love of my life.
| By Bwaynef on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 03:55 pm: Edit |
To Misio regarding gay friendly churches:
Im not a church goer myself, but Pilgrim Congregational United Church of Christ in Tremont may be what you are looking for. I suspect it is gay friendly because they once staged some Tennessee Williams plays that I attended some years ago. They also sponsor art related events. Here is their contact info:
Pilgrim Congregational United Church of Christ
2592 W. 14 Street
Cleveland, Ohio 44113
216 861-7388
Contact: Rev. Craig Schaub, Rev. Laurie Hafner
| By Mignon on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit |
I wonder how Ohio feels about my marriage. I married a man born in Ohio, married him in Ohio, then he tells me after 8 years, he wants to be female. So we go through all the therapy and surgery and stay married. We are legally married and are same sex now. Would they nullify our marriage without a divorce? Now living in Michigan.
A freelance writer friend of mine needs GLBT parents to discuss teen pregnancy and their experiences with it with their child. Anyone here familiar with such a situation or know someone who would be willing to be interviewed anonymously if necessary? Write me at brianwfairbanks@yahoo.com
I think that most men are pigs anyway, gay or straight becuase Ive seen how they act with my own eyes. Ive seen more than enough of my gay male friends screw girls because they were there. Guys take WAY longer to mature in most cases, so thats probably why a lot of gay guys could care less about the marriage aspect. Personally, I have been with my woman now for a little over 3 years and I would like to marry her because unlike most guys, I see and feel with my heart and brain and I dont have a dick to make me a dickhead. Anyhooter, I think we should be able to get married. Its not a matter of personal preference. Whats right is right. Its 2004 and where are we? NOWHERE! Bill Clinton was the only one who tried to do some things for our community. All we did was bitch about dont ask, dont tell, but I think we have to take baby steps because throwing the issue in peoples faces has only pushed our progress back. We get into their lives and their hearts, thats great, but if we continually push ourselves in their faces, what good can that be? Its not good at all and it creates more problems. People have been saying, Life isnt fair for a very long time. ITS 2004 for Christ sake! Tell me why it cant be or why we cant strive to make it better? There is no reason except these idiots are stuck in their ways. Now, Im not the most open minded person in the world as you probably have gathered, but there is no reason to stop other humans from getting basic human rights and the same rights as others. WE the people! I pay my fucking taxes and why? So this screwed up government can take it and use it in ways I do not agree with and deny me the right to marry my woman?!! What kind of society is this? Were constantly being used and Im tired of it. I think its time for both middle class citizens and our community as a whole to rise up against the assholes in power and let them know that its time to change because this is not the way things are supposed to be and we all know it. If anyone knows how to get into touch with that big mouthed, ugly mother-fucker Bob Taft, let me know. I have a few words to share with his stupid ass too.
| By Melissa on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit |
The real issue for me is the legal rights that go along with marriage.
I think the republicans are using gay marriage to string along the religous right. They need to secure those votes somehow. Three years ago they strung them along with the promise to stop abortion, but that didnt happen.
By the way, contact information for Bob Taft can be found at www.ohio.gov but good luck, I have been calling to get in to speak with him for weeks now.
| By Djmlkwd on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 08:56 am: Edit |
Eric above mentions that civil unions are denied 1070 rights granted to married couples. Can someone please lead me to some links that would provide information about this matter. Thanks
| By Amanda on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:26 am: Edit |
I just want to say that I believe that same-sex marriages are a step in the right direction for todays society. I am proud to be a Canadian who believes in right to express ones love in all forms.I am proud of those people who have fought for their rights. Keep makeing a difference!
| By Dayna on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:35 am: Edit |
I just want to say that our society has come along way in excepting same-sex marriage. As a canadian I feel proud that Canada has made an attempt to be more accepting of sex sex couples. Canada has given gay couples he right to celebrate their love for one other in the same way heterosexual couples have since the beginning. Keep fighting for what you believe in.
So, the lower house of Spains Parliament just overrode the upper houses rejection of same-sex marriage, making it the third country to legalize full same-sex marriage. Canadas House of Commons approved it this week, and its a shoo-in for the Canadian Senate, which is ruled by the Liberal party there.
On July 4, 2005, delegates to the United Church of Christs biennial Synod in Atlanta voted 80% to pass a resolution calling for full marriage equality in the United States for all citizens. While this resolution is not binding on local churches, it is hugely symbolic. The United Church of Christ is descended from the Pilgrims who fled religious oppression in Europe and who had a big role in early American history. It has always had a tradition for being in the forefront on justice issues. It was the first mainline church to ordain an African-American in 1785; a woman in 1853, and a gay man in 1972. The national church has been open and affirming to gays and lesbians since 1985. 13 congregations in northeast Ohio have designated themselves as being open and affirming congregations. Before the resolution passed, I had misgivings about it, knowing that same-sex marriage is a divisive issue for the UCC just as it is all the other mainline denominations. We will lose individual members and entire congregations over this issue. But now that it has passed, I am enormously proud to be a member of the United Church of Christ. It was a wonderful, very positive day for gay and lesbian people of northeast Ohio and all of America. To have defeated it would have been a terribly negative message to send. To pass it was as positive as it gets. The decision may be shocking to many, but in my mind, it ensures that there will come a day when our society will look back and say What was the big deal? The UCC was there at the beginning!